Kelly Tshibaka: 0:08
Welcome to Stand. I’m your host, kelly Tshibaka. We’re so happy to have you today. This is a show where we help make courage contagious. I am a former US Senate candidate in Alaska and the current chair of Trump’s campaign, and I’m joined today by my amazing co-host, denali Tshibaka, who also happens to be my daughter, oldest and potentially favorite. I know other people will be watching the show, so I have to be careful. We’re so excited to have you. You can be one of our standouts by going to standshoworg. That’s where you can follow us on our social media channels and catch all of our former episodes on YouTube.
Kelly Tshibaka: 0:43
But today we are so excited to jump into some amazing topics happening up here in Alaska that could also affect elections across the country. So we are going to talk about something on our ballot the topic of denouement Ranked choice voting. Do we keep it or throw it out? Ranked choice voting For those who don’t know what that is, we’ve got the person who is championing the overthrow of ranked choice voting with us today. Ms Mikaela, we are so happy to have you on the show. Mikaela is the chair of yes On 2. Mikaela, thanks so much for being with us today. Oh, it’s such a pleasure to be with you. At the beginning, let’s talk about what ranked choice voting is. For people who don’t know and our audience that is, outside of Alaska or people in Alaska who are like I’m not quite sure how this whole thing works what is ranked choice voting and what’s the history of how it made it up here in Alaska.
Mikaela Emswiler: 1:34
Well ranked. Choice voting is a new system that was just introduced to Alaska, about four years ago. It’s a system where you are supposed to rank the candidates in order of preference and it eliminates the one choice, one candidate vote. It has been a very confusing, complicated system. It gives greater control to dark money and it’s an emerging threat to our democracy, as we are seeing things play out in our experiences here in Alaska. So it was actually brought to Alaska four years ago by these outside interest groups like Fair Vote, Unite America, the 1630 Fund and seeking to re-engineer our election system. It was also designed by a guy named Scott Kendall, who we call the father of ring choice voting here in Alaska. He was Senator Murkowski’s former in-house counsel and he brought this system up partly to get around the primary system because it wasn’t looking like she was going to win the election. Around the primary system because it wasn’t looking like she was going to win the election and it was, as exposed by Project Veritas and by Murkowski’s staffers, that it was to keep her in power.
Kelly Tshibaka: 2:54
Yeah, that’s right.
Kelly Tshibaka: 2:54
We are well too familiar with that.
Kelly Tshibaka: 2:56
Because of what happened in our 2022 race, we saw the dark underbelly that Senator Murkowski wasn’t actually the popular support in a traditional voting system, where everyone knows who the clear winner is, and the only way that they could cobble together victory was by re-engineering the entire election system so that it was confusing for the voters.
Kelly Tshibaka: 3:17
This system works by actually reallocating votes as the system progresses, and the Division of Elections has testified before our state legislature that they are not actually able to audit the results of the election, and so, if you don’t get your first place selection up in the top two, your vote gets eliminated or your ballot is exhausted, and then, if you happen to vote for a second or third place candidate, that vote gets reallocated to above, and often a second or third place candidate that vote gets reallocated to above, and often the second or third place candidate will rise above and become the first place candidate, supposedly representing a broader proportion of the voters, but most of the time, the studies have shown that the person who ends up winning does not represent more than 50 percent of the votes that originally were represented in round one, and so that’s ranked choice voting.
Kelly Tshibaka: 4:06
But up here we also have with it a jungle primary, which means it’s anyone can run, no matter what in our primary and the parties whether it’s Republican, democrat, the Libertarian Party, alaska Independence Party, constitution Party, green Party they no longer get to screen, vet and clear their candidates. Mikaela, what has that resulted in this crazy primary process in Alaska? What have we seen, not in theory but in practice as a result in Alaska?
Mikaela Emswiler: 4:36
You know there are so many horror stories that have come out of this terrible experiment. It’s been an absolute disaster, every angle you look at it. One of the some of the most glaring issues that I’ve seen is that parties are no longer able to properly vet their candidates. You know, typically, you know, you look at the independents, the Republican, democrat, green Party it’s the cream that rises to the top in their category, so to speak. So back in 2022, during the U S Senate race, as you well know, there was a lady from Hollywood she was a California actress who threw her hat into the ring and, uh, it was unnoticed um, unnoticed um that. You know she’s actually from out of state. So she even got a short term lease at an Airbnb in Juneau and ran. She was heavily funded by outside money. She was in. All the parades went door to door and this didn’t really come out until toward the end of the campaign season, in the primary, where it was exposed.
Mikaela Emswiler: 5:45
And this is just opening the lid on the can of worms. You know, even this year we’re seeing a New York felon that’s on the ballot running for Congress. He made the top four. He’s never been an Alaska resident. I don’t even think he’s ever been to Alaska, been an Alaska resident. I don’t even think he’s ever been to Alaska. He has a South Dakota address, you know, tied to a warehouse, and he’s in in prison or in jail until the year 2038. And so folks are realizing they can game the system. You know what is keeping? What are this? The safeguards that we’ve had in place through the parties are no longer there. They’re no longer applicable because we’ve got inmates. We’ve got California actresses running. You know what’s there to keep Russian spies from running in our campaigns? It just, it’s just a terrible system that opens the door wide open to fraud and corruption and makes our elections very vulnerable to exploitation and tampering.
Denali Tshibaka: 6:55
Yeah, 100 percent, Mikaela. Let’s talk a little bit more about how the jungle primaries are leaving our election system open to weakness and vulnerabilities. We’ve seen a lot of stuff coming from no one to talking about how RCV is actually protecting the election system. It’s restoring veterans rights. It’s making sure that independents and undeclareds can vote for who they want to vote for, and you and I and Kelly both week, we all know that the election system actually allowed all of that before, but can you explain a little bit more what no one to was saying about that and just why it’s so incorrect?
Mikaela Emswiler: 7:31
Sure. So the ads that our opposition no one to is running right now is that they’re saying that political elites, which is Alaskan grassroots, are trying to force veterans to join a party just to vote in a primary. We know that’s not true. That has never been true of our state. We believe that everybody should vote in our primary.
Mikaela Emswiler: 7:55
In fact, the language on ballot measure two just simply returns our voting system back to the way things originally were. You know, without the jungle primary, without, you know, with the proper vetting of candidates where the cream rises to the top. But you know this what they’re saying is just such a blatant lie because the Republican Party, the Democrat Party, in their party platform, say that independents, undeclared nonpartisans, can vote in their primary. You know this is just to safeguard Democrats, republicans, from gaming the system as we are seeing, and it’s just to yeah, just to have those safeguards in place. So right now, without the vetting of candidates, it really makes it so dangerous to our democracy that we can have felons and actresses on the ballot Very dangerous. So we’ve got to eliminate that jungle primary and go back to a system that is simple, transparent and easy to understand.
Kelly Tshibaka: 9:03
And one in which we’ve always had independents and undeclareds able to vote in the traditional party primaries.
Denali Tshibaka: 9:10
If you look at both Democrats and Republicans, you know their mission statements and stuff online for Alaska. None of them have anything about unaffiliated people not being able to vote. It’s specifically just that Democrats cannot vote in Republican primaries and Republicans cannot vote in Democrat primaries. That’s it.
Kelly Tshibaka: 9:30
Something else that’s concerned me, and we can pick this up after the break. But I know you and I’ve talked about it as someone who represents the younger generation of voters there’s a lot of people who don’t want to fit into the strict Republican and Democrat parties anymore. They’re looking for alternate candidates. You know, like we would see RFK Jr running as someone who’s kind of representing an out of the box candidate this year and our parties maybe aren’t representing all of the people. And so before in Alaska because we’re a little bit of a slightly libertarian society across the board, right and before in Alaska, it really wouldn’t matter what category you’re looking at president and vice president, or Congress, or, in our state, house and Senate races the Republican and Democrat Party from our Alaska Independent Party, which is a unique party here in our state, the Constitution Party, the Green Party, libertarians, et cetera. You’d have a broad selection of candidates that you could pick from.
Kelly Tshibaka: 10:35
Now, because of the way that this jungle primary and ranked choice voting system works, they don’t even show up in the top four. That’s right. You only get four candidates at the top, and what we’ve noticed in these last couple cycles is those four slots are dominated, oh yeah, by the, the traditional parties, by Republicans and Democrats, and the only way I’ve seen an alternate party get through to the top four is if a traditional party candidate drops out. And so there’s this lie that you know. This makes it so that so many different people can run and and get elected, but the and they can.
Denali Tshibaka: 11:11
They just won’t show up as an option in the final in the top four.
Kelly Tshibaka: 11:15
So in Alaska we’ve got, you know, this concept of a mudroom. I know that that’s not common in a lot of the lower 48, but we’ve got so much mud and dirt and sludge that we have pretty large mud rooms before you’re allowed to come in the house because we’ve got to take off all our gear and it’s like it’s turned our election system into a giant mud room where it’s pretty crazy and it’s pretty muddy. But the only people actually allowed into the political process of the House of Representatives or the state house in Juneau, the Capitol, is just your top four and those tend to be heavily funded, often dark money funded incumbent candidates. That’s what I’ve noticed and so we’ll pick that up on the other side of the break and other things that are problematic about this process, because I know a lot of states across the country are considering this rank choice voting debacle and we in Alaska aren’t experimenting with it, we’ve already done it. You’re on stand with Kelly and Denali Tshibaka.
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Denali Tshibaka: 13:17
Welcome back to Stand Standout. You’re here today with Denali Tshibaka and Kelly Tshibaka, where today we are interviewing Mikaela Emswiler, the chair for yes On 2 up here in Alaska. Mikaela, we’ve been talking a lot about just how bad the primary system and the voting and elections have been under RCV, but one thing that’s also of concern to note is just how much dark money is being funneled into no on twos initiative to keep rank choice voting. Can you tell us a little more about that? How are those numbers looking? What? What kind of support does that indicate?
Kelly Tshibaka: 13:49
Yeah, and why are so many people outside of Alaska so concerned about listed in our election?
Denali Tshibaka: 13:54
Yeah, people outside of Alaska so concerned about, so interested in our elections.
Mikaela Emswiler: 13:56
Yeah, that is the million dollar question.
Kelly Tshibaka: 13:58
Maybe a $12 million question.
Mikaela Emswiler: 14:01
That’s a $12 million question. We have never seen this kind of a flood of dark money from outside interest groups coming into our elections. Back in 2020, when this was first brought up to Alaska, we were actually promised that dark money would go away. In fact, all of their ads that the opposition, or at least the folks that are wanting to implement this their entire campaign revolved around dark money to get rid of it. And, of course, you know that sounded pretty good because you know dark money just sounds really scary. And up here in Alaska know that sounded pretty good because you know dark money just sounds really scary. And up here in Alaska, we love the transparency, we love honesty. We’re just common sense Alaskans that want to see our elections run with honesty. So what we’re seeing this year is $12,200,000 coming in for a ballot initiative. Now, to put this in perspective, typically in the past, to run a statewide race would be right around a million dollars, based off of our former House races but $12 million. Alaska is one of two states that have this system statewide. It’s Alaska and Maine and the same groups that have pushed it up here are now trying to push it in other states in the lower 48. The reason why they want to keep this so bad is because they know the national significance. When we overturn this system, it puts the kambosh on their entire plan. So this race has national significance and I went down the rabbit trail of following the dark money to figure out.
Mikaela Emswiler: 15:49
You know, where are who’s funding all of this? Is it Alaskans? Is it outside? How dark is the dark money? And right now, all of their ads and I’ve got a flyer right here, but it’s the top three contributors Unite America out of Denver, colorado Action Now Initiative out of Houston and the final five fund out of Chicago.
Mikaela Emswiler: 16:13
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many groups. There’s also groups from the East Coast that are giving, you know, $200,000 here and there, and it’s just a flood coming into Alaska. And I just have to ask the question why is there so much of an interest to dominate Alaska politics from all of these interest groups and individuals from out of state, a lot of these? When I look into the actual funds, they are backed by Obama donors. It even goes further than that. It goes, you know, and the Murdoch’s, the Soros funded organizations. Further than that. It’s just not in the US Soros-funded organizations. Further than that, it’s just not in the US. There are even global elites, billionaires from outside, you know from Switzerland, like Hans-Jörg Wies, that are looking to that have already put hundreds of millions of dollars through an action burger fund to funnel these groups.
Mikaela Emswiler: 17:16
Now we know that their goal, or the way that they view the American Constitution, is that they see it as a progressive document. They want to see more of a just. They want to re-engineer our systems and you have to ask why and that’s really the $12 million question why are they so interested in re-engineering our elections? Why do they see the US Constitution in light of progressive politics? What is their agenda? We are fighting a very I mean, we’re in a battle of ideas, a battle of worldviews. America has been built on biblical principles and we have fought against Marxism, marxist ideas, a lot of dangerous ideas and agendas that have come against the way that our nation was originally founded. Like we are in the fight of our lives. Not just in this battle, but on a broader perspective, you can really begin to unravel the agendas and the motives behind some of these. The funding of a lot of these dangerous groups, and the idea, the ideas behind it is very, very dangerous to our democracy.
Denali Tshibaka: 18:37
Yeah, and let’s talk a little bit more just about the money real quick, because I do have one burning question. There’s so much money and we know that a lot of it’s coming from outside groups, but, Mikaela, how much money is coming from Alaskans to support no on two versus yes on two? I feel like that will really reveal just how much Alaskans support ranked choice voting.
Mikaela Emswiler: 18:57
Well, when I was looking at the financials and was trying to figure out, you know, how much backing do they have from actual folks that are in the state, there was about $10,000.
Mikaela Emswiler: 19:09
Out of the $12 million, $10,000 comes from Alaskans to keep ranked choice voting ten thousand dollars comes from Alaskans to keep ranked choice voting exactly wow, wow, wow. You know, and last year you know this this all started from a ballot initiative. Last year there was tens of thousands of Alaskans that united together to do a petition drive. We were in all 40 districts across the state, which is a Alaska is a massive state. It was a lot of work boots on the ground and everywhere we went people were eager and ready to sign the petition. In fact, we not only got the minimum number of signatures, but we went well above and beyond the number you know. There was such a huge outcry for folks that are were wanting to go back to the original system.
Kelly Tshibaka: 20:03
Yeah, Well, what’s your level of support right now for the? What do you think the chances are that you’re going to win for yes on 2? What’s the level of support for yes on 2?
Mikaela Emswiler: 20:12
Well, I will say we’ve got a lot of support across the state. We’ve got voters of all ages that are busy door knocking trying to get out the vote as best as we can. We’ve just been passing the collection plate around here in the state. This is tough times with our current economy, with inflation, so it’s hard to compete against the $12 million that we see out of state. It’d be difficult to compete, you know, with a $1 million campaign that are word of mouth, writing op-eds, calling into radio stations, doing everything that we know how to do to combat this terrible system.
Kelly Tshibaka: 21:01
And the polls are showing that we’re largely tied right now. Right, that is correct. So what can listeners do who want to support yes On 2?
Mikaela Emswiler: 21:11
Well, as soon as the money comes in, we turn around. And we were spending it on ads, on media, on getting our message out. And this is the time for Alaska to rally. Folks can find us at on our website and donate on our website at. Yes on to that’s the number two AK dot com. Yes On to Acom. Yes onto akcom that we need an influx of finances to continue getting our message out through our ads, through our messaging, through get out the vote efforts. So anything helps at this point.
Kelly Tshibaka: 21:51
And Mikaela, if rank choice voting and jungle primaries stay in place in Alaska and we are not successful in overturning it, what do you think the consequences are?
Mikaela Emswiler: 22:02
I think people are going to be as outraged as ever that you will have stirred up the hornet’s nest. You know this this is. They cannot silence us. You know we are the voice of the people. They cannot silence our voices. Like they have tried through the law fair last year, like they have tried by disenfranchising six rural villages by not even counting their votes, like the way that they trashed nearly 15,000 ballots in the general election two years ago. They are trying to silence our voices. And boy they better watch out, because they have just stirred up the hornet’s nest.
Kelly Tshibaka: 22:45
Yeah, one of the things we’ve noticed for those who are out of touch with what’s happening with elections in Alaska is, since ranked choice voting was implemented, we have had record low voter turnout, and it has been in our statewide elections.
Kelly Tshibaka: 23:01
We’ve seen it in local elections. There’s just been a precipitous drop-off and there was a poll done right after our ranked choice voting election in 2022 to analyze why we had such bad voter turnout. It was done by Signal, one of the best polling companies in America, and they found that 26% of the people who responded who said that they did not come out to vote that year normal people who vote super voter people said that they did not come out to vote because they did not trust the rank choice voting system. So we know that it is contributing to the lack of voter turnout and, interestingly, 13% were Republican and 13% were Democrats. So it’s not that this is just a system that’s affecting one side of the aisle and I think we’re going to see more of that this year because, as you said, that New York felon, who’s on the ballot, is registered as a Democrat and we know many Republicans who intentionally voted for him to get him on the ballot to take votes away from the current incumbent, mary Pultola, the Democrats favorite.
Denali Tshibaka: 24:07
Yeah.
Kelly Tshibaka: 24:07
And I think it’s quite likely since there’s two Democrats on the ballot for Congress and only one Republican this year quite likely that Mary Peltola is going to lose her seat, in large part because this New York felon, this violent New York felon, is going to take a significant percentage away from her, and then you are going to have more than just Republicans upset about the outcome of ranked choice voting. So, Mikaela Amsuala, thank you so much for being with us today. Yeson2akcom is where listeners can go to support these efforts. Please note that the other side, the opponent, has had virtually no support from Inside Alaska and I think, when I look at YesOn2’s reports, I think nearly all of your support has been from Inside Alaska. So this is an Alaska initiative. We are looking for help to make sure that we can overturn rank choice voting. Yeson2, akcom. Mikaela, thank you so much for being with us today.
Mikaela Emswiler: 25:01
Thank you, my pleasure.
Kelly Tshibaka: 25:03
Yes, and we will be back right after this break. You are on stand with Kelly and Denali Tshibaka. We are at stand show dot org. Stand by. We’ll be right back after this.
Denali Tshibaka: 25:26
You’re back on stand with Kelly and Denali Tshibaka where we just finished interviewing Mikaela Emswiler, the chair for yes on 2, an initiative up here that is trying to overturn rank choice voting in Alaska. You know we talked a lot about dark money during that interview and Mikaela mentioned that there is $12 million from out of state flooding into no On 2 to keep rank choice voting and only only 10 000 of those dollars came from in-state alaskans, whereas about 130 grand has come from alaska to yes on two. So the numbers are showing that yes on two has an infinite amount of more support in alaska than no one to does from alaskans, from alaskans?
Kelly Tshibaka: 26:04
yeah. Well, here’s a question I have for you. Yeah, last time we went through this battle in 2020, there was a lot of in-state support for overthrowing ranked choice voting or preventing it. There was a lot of money from corporations and donors, and there was also money on the other side in state support, and this year, it seems like nobody’s playing. I mean relatively 100 and whatever thousand. Is not that much money, right? It seems like everyone’s sort of taking a knee and watching and I wanted to ask you why you think that is.
Denali Tshibaka: 26:41
Why everyone’s taking a knee. I honestly have no idea.
Kelly Tshibaka: 26:44
Yeah, why we’re just sort of yielding to dark money forces, especially when, I mean honestly, you cannot move without being inundated with lies. And it’s the same exact strategy that they used last time. Remember the first time? We never voted in ranked choice voting, we never voted in jungle primaries. We voted in keep dark money out of Alaska. And it was hit it. And it was funded by dark money.
Kelly Tshibaka: 27:09
And all of that was exposed in those undercover videos by Project Veritas, which exposed it all, with people from Murkowski’s campaign admitting that they needed to get in rank choice voting and jungle primaries in order to get her reelected. And they knew that the best messaging was keep dark money out and it was nearly all dark money funded. But that was the messaging they use. This time they’re not using that messaging, but they’re using false messaging again. All lies and even their disclaimer show it’s dark money funded. You can see on social media that they’ve exposed that the people in the ads are actors from out of state. You know there’s a theme here, so you can’t even get Alaskans to promote your message and agenda.
Denali Tshibaka: 27:51
Well, and let’s not forget all of the illegality surrounding their actual ads, by using the army logo without their consent.
Kelly Tshibaka: 27:57
Yeah, so now the US Army is actually investigating trademark and, excuse me, it looks like somebody else had something to say about that trademark infringement of the use of the army logo for one of their ads that they used and that the misinformation, the violation of FCC rules and airing and blatant lies over radio and television, they’ve just it. Whether it’s this direction or that direction, they can’t move without engaging in illegal activity funded by international and outside dark money. But my question for you is why? Why is Alaska just standing by in the sidelines and the same thing’s happening on our first ballot proposition? Our first ballot proposition is terrifying. It’s going to crush Alaska, small businesses and our economy. I would even say medium size or large businesses.
Kelly Tshibaka: 28:54
To progressively raise the minimum wage always keep it higher than federal wage. To add guaranteed paid sick leave for two weeks a year, for I mean, that gets refinished, it doesn’t right. Yeah, that carries over. For for teenagers like the ones in our house who can’t even make the bed and do the dishes, now get I’m just going to be candid more paid sickly than either you or I get, yeah, right, and so that’s the. That’s the first one. I mean that’s going. It is not a minimum wage bill. It is an inflation bill. It is going to usher in record inflation in Alaska when we already deal with higher inflation than the rest of the lower 48. Because of where we live, because of the cost of shipping and the cost of goods up here, it’s almost like living on an island or in a foreign country.
Kelly Tshibaka: 29:39
Did mine meld there. So why are Alaskans taking a knee and not participating?
Denali Tshibaka: 29:43
Over to you. A lot of it is the fact that there’s just a lot of voter burnout about what’s going on. Ranked choice voting has totally killed. It killed our elections in 2020. Yeah, it killed our elections in 2022. Yeah, we’re going to see it again in 2024. We already have with our primary results. Nobody is turning out to the polls and it’s because they don’t trust this election system.
Kelly Tshibaka: 30:04
Yeah, that’s what the polls, that’s what the after action poll said, when we did the lowest voter turnout election in the history of Alaska. It’s because of RCV.
Denali Tshibaka: 30:12
Yeah. So that’s why they’re not really turning out to vote. I’m hoping and praying to God that, because it’s a presidential year, people are going to flood to the polls and decide to overturn ranked choice voting, but the fact of the matter is we just can’t rely on that anymore. Turn ranked choice voting but the fact of the matter is we just can’t rely on that anymore. People have just become so burnt out with the election process, with all of the candidates that are getting thrown in their faces, because let’s also not forget that, because we have ranked choice voting, there isn’t the Democrats and the Republicans putting one person forward and saying vote for this person. We can have over 70 candidates in any given race.
Kelly Tshibaka: 30:44
In the off-cycle race we had 75 just statewide candidates, not your district candidates for state house or state senate. There were 75 candidates running for statewide office that people had to screen and vet through personally because there wasn’t a party doing it for them. I didn’t even keep track of how many people ran this year.
Denali Tshibaka: 31:03
I don’t know if you did, I didn’t want to. I would say we’re pretty involved in politics we’re pretty involved and I didn’t even want to.
Kelly Tshibaka: 31:11
It’s hard to keep up.
Denali Tshibaka: 31:12
So what does that mean for the regular? Voter the regular voter is just checking out, right, you’ve got a single mom of three that’s working two jobs, trying to figure out how she’s going to keep food on the table this winter. And she has to figure out who she wants to vote for and how RCV works. She doesn’t have the time.
Kelly Tshibaka: 31:26
Right. So what happened when you were in college and they asked the class how many of you are voting?
Denali Tshibaka: 31:35
My hand shot proudly up in the air along with maybe four other people in a classroom of 200 that nobody wanted to go and vote. So our younger generation.
Kelly Tshibaka: 31:44
Right, our 20 somethings are checking out across the country. Why is that? So you’re going to vote anyway? Yeah, even if you know, things like rank choice voting are, I think, intentionally some may say unintentionally contributing to voter suppression, voter apathy. But why did your class discuss why people aren’t coming out to vote?
Denali Tshibaka: 32:05
You know we didn’t discuss it as a class, but I did have a really interesting conversation with one of my friends. His name is Caleb. Shout out to you Go, Caleb. Very intellectual.
Kelly Tshibaka: 32:14
I just wanted credit that I did the actual shout out yeah he’s awesome, okay, thanks.
Denali Tshibaka: 32:18
Very intellectual, very smart, had a very interesting take on this that I did not agree with, but I respected where he was coming from. His answer to this was basically why would I vote when the elitists have already decided who’s going to win? He was like why does my voice count?
Kelly Tshibaka: 32:33
Why is there a way?
Denali Tshibaka: 32:33
to drop our mic Right right. He was like why does it matter?
Kelly Tshibaka: 32:38
Denali when it’s already pre-decided.
Denali Tshibaka: 32:39
He’s like. So, if I want to vote for Kamala or for Trump, whoever has the most money, whoever Kamala or for Trump, whoever has the most money, whoever’s pulling the strings, whoever’s throwing the election, has already decided who’s going to win. So why would I? So what’s your take on that? Well, my take, my response to him was well, it’s exactly that kind of reasoning. Why the communists and the Marxists get into power is because when you have people who the majority of people who have decided my voice does not matter, I’m going to give up, I should not vote, I give up. That is the exact same reason why the people who are voting for the people you’d rather not have in, they don’t believe that they turn out to the polls. They vote and get in. We saw that with Suzanne LaFrance. She did not have that many votes. She didn’t she does.
Kelly Tshibaka: 33:19
So that’s the mayor of Anchorage. Yeah, the mayor of. She did not have voter enthusiasm on her side. No voter enthusiasm.
Denali Tshibaka: 33:25
She just had more people turn out than.
Kelly Tshibaka: 33:27
Dave Bronson did.
Denali Tshibaka: 33:33
A lot of that is because of rain, choice voting, voter burnout, but also the fact that a lot of people, including young people, do not believe that their voice counts anymore, that it’s already been pre-decided, so why would I waste the time it?
Kelly Tshibaka: 33:39
actually seems that a lot of these tactics are designed as psychological tactics to persuade people that it’s pre-decided it as psychological tactics to persuade people that it’s pre-decided, it doesn’t matter, right? Like the question about the election integrity systems. And now what you’re doing with ranked choice voting, because remember that poll showed that it was equally split. People who vote to the left and people who vote to the right equally did not trust ranked choice voting, and that it contributed to over 25% of the normal voting population choosing to not vote. And so some of these tactics and strategies are actually designed to reduce the population that votes, because our entire country is built on the idea that the government is actually accountable to us as a people, and so when we choose to opt out, then it is a lot easier for, as you said, the for it to be pre-decided and predetermined.
Denali Tshibaka: 34:28
Y’all. This is how communism begins. This is how it creeps into democracies. This is how totalitarian regimes get put in place.
Denali Tshibaka: 34:37
It is when good people, people that believe in democracies and republics, decide that their voice no longer matters. The second they get you believing that is the second they have won, because when you decide to discount your own voice, why would they take it seriously? This is why your representatives do not represent you anymore. You need to overcome this thinking, because this is what they want you to believe, so that they can stay in power. You need to overcome this thinking. You need to step around these bear traps and you need to get out to the vote, to the polls. You need to vote. You need to cast your ballot for people who are going to keep your voice in government nick begich, donald trump. Those people are the ones that want to make sure that your voice is still heard, even at the national level. People like peltola, people like murkowski, people like kamala harris. They don’t care. They want to cling on to power and their cold dead hands for as long as they can.
Kelly Tshibaka: 35:26
If you don’t take your voice seriously, why would anybody else?
Denali Tshibaka: 35:31
That’s right, you taught me that when I was younger, you always said if you’re not going to stand up to your bullies, why would you expect other people to do it for you?
Kelly Tshibaka: 35:38
Right, well, why and why would your bully stand down and why would your bully stand?
Denali Tshibaka: 35:42
down. If you’re just going to, that’s a really good point.
Kelly Tshibaka: 35:44
Whoever told you that?
Denali Tshibaka: 35:45
I wonder who it was.
Kelly Tshibaka: 35:47
I wonder who that was. But that is a really good point. I want to pick up on the other side of this break, kind of exploring that idea of self-empowerment because something that I’ve noticed as we’re coming up closer to election day and I’ve taken a stand on certain candidates and issues. As it seems to be turning some of the races here in the state and some people are getting pretty angry at me. My phone is blowing up a lot and one of the things that I’m amused by as that’s happening is I’m happy to come alongside our candidates who I believe in, and to get an opportunity to champion them, but the ability to do that has come at a great cost. So the idea of stand up for what you believe and if you don’t silence yourself, they can’t silence you.
Denali Tshibaka: 36:35
I always say cancellation is a choice.
Kelly Tshibaka: 36:38
Cancellation is a choice, but also, I think people listening know well if the reason I don’t speak up is because it comes at a cost, that’s true, but on the other side of it, is this really great reward, because now I seem to be perceived as a big threat. I’m being campaigned against across the state even though I’m not running for anything, but that’s because it seems that my participation in races it seems to be moving the needle, and that is a really great, great honor to be able to help other people. So let’s pick up on that the ability to actually have an impact even after I’m not campaigning. I haven’t been campaigning for years, so, on the other side of the break with stand, kelly and Denali Tshibaka stand by. You’re back on stand with kelly and denali Tshibaka.
Kelly Tshibaka: 37:35
We are at stand showorg, and we are talking about the courage to make a difference, because this show is all about making courage contagious, and we stand for freedom, truth and government by the people, which happened to be some of my favorite things to talk about. You would know that, though, wouldn’t you? Oh, yeah, yes, so in this election cycle, uh, our family has been off the campaign trail for a couple years, about two years now it’s been nice good break not gonna lie but interestingly we keep getting sent pictures of mailers across the great state of alaska kelly trebucka is endorsing so-and-so.
Denali Tshibaka: 38:12
Not good for our state.
Kelly Tshibaka: 38:13
You vote for them Like what, and I always laugh and think well, anytime some incumbent wants to take on an election against me, they’re probably going to lose, since we carried nearly 50% of the state in 2022. So I’m really happy to take the heat off of some of our candidates and help them across the finish line, and happy to put the endorsement of Trump’s campaign behind our candidates who vote in line with the people, because I really believe that the Trump campaign movement is really a populist movement. It’s a campaign for the people, by the people, of the people, and that’s what I believe, and I think that’s what Alaskans believe and Alaskans deserve. And so what I think is interesting, as I’ve reflected on it, is I’m happy to be able to lend my name, my reputation, to support candidates and make a change in Alaska. That’s really what matters to me is making a change in our state.
Kelly Tshibaka: 39:11
But it occurred to me that this Tshibaka endorsement seems to be a real threat to the far left, who is coming out guns blazing this October and to my great amusement. And it occurred to me that the reason that it’s a severe threat is because it’s come at a severe cost, and so I think back at the millions and millions of dollars that were spent against us and trying to tarnish our name and all the lies that were spent and the campaign that was lost. Someone said to me the other day is there anything you can’t do? And I just busted out laughing and said, yeah, win elections. I thought you’d like that one. So I think that the true cost you got to count the cost as you step in and say I’m going to use my voice.
Kelly Tshibaka: 39:56
But this is something that I’ve learned that anything worth value comes on the other side of suffering and pain, and trying to avoid a life of pain and suffering is actually avoiding a life of reward. And I’ve learned that you know decades down the journey. But I wanted to kick that to you because when I look at at youth in your generation, I see people who seem to value. You know life is supposed to be enjoyed and, yeah, easy. So what are your thoughts on that, denali?
Denali Tshibaka: 40:27
Well, first I want to do you one better and say that not only are the rewards greater when you come out of the other end of suffering, but they’re even more, they’re better, when you have a good attitude about it. So, even after enduring all the hardships of the campaign, all the media hits that I personally had just yeah you were smeared.
Denali Tshibaka: 40:48
I was smeared as an underage kid. That was not unimpactful to me as a teenager. But when you get into college and I had a couple professors who recognized you because I was a poli-sci major, so they kept up with politics and you were one of the ones they knew about and they were like, oh well, you know, since your mom is a politician XY Z, and my knee-jerk response was always she’s not a politician.
Kelly Tshibaka: 41:13
Not a politician. She never won.
Denali Tshibaka: 41:15
Never elected and they would be so surprised that I had just such a could-care-less attitude about it. And it’s like because when you go through something as hard as that was, sitting there bitter and being like, well you know, doesn’t actually make much of a difference. It’s the people who are still smiling, still laughing, still. You know what? I’m going to keep endorsing people. I don’t care if you’re going to blow up my phone about it. That are the ones that make a difference.
Kelly Tshibaka: 41:41
Laughing makes a difference. Now why did you get into it in the first place? We didn’t run to be politicians. No, we didn’t.
Denali Tshibaka: 41:48
We ran to make a difference.
Denali Tshibaka: 41:49
We ran to make, to make difference so when you look at that compared to my generation, my generation has been taught that the best way you can get what’s coming to you is by being a victim, is by being oppressed. Well, oh, I grew up struggling so much. My parents you’ll never believe this. They used to ground me. Oh my, it’s that kind of thing. And you know, everyone on the social media is jumping in the comments. You poor thing. How could they ever do that? You seem so sweet now. Well, yeah, because her parents grounded her when she was a kid.
Denali Tshibaka: 42:20
But when you immediately jump the gun to, I am a victim, I am oppressed. Have pity on me. That seems a lot easier. People immediately hand you what you want, but it’s all short term, it doesn’t last. Versus the people that I met who have had a lot of hard things coming their way, i’ma just give another shout out my really good friend, chaz. Love you, dude, chaz, yo chaz. Chaz is awesome. Chaz had a really, really bad physical accident a couple years ago that totally derailed his life plans and it took him a while to recover from it. But when I say to you that he is the sweetest, funniest guy I have ever met, Always positive, always positive.
Denali Tshibaka: 43:02
He jokes about it all the time and that makes such a big difference compared to somebody who may have had that same kind of accident and all those injuries and gotten bitter about it.
Kelly Tshibaka: 43:11
It’s such a good point. One of the things that has always kind of confused me. I mean I’ve been making waves about my thoughts on politics and religion since I was a little kid right Ruining parties for a while, but I’ve never understood why people get so heated about it, like when we disagree over what you upset about. I don’t know. Nobody fights over what’s the best side dish at Thanksgiving. It’s mashed potatoes. Well, I’m not even sure we have debates in the house over what genre of food we’re going with. Are we doing Italian steak or the traditional?
Denali Tshibaka: 43:45
Do we all scream, cry and head to our room when we disagree? Are we ordering Thai?
Kelly Tshibaka: 43:49
food and it’s not a knockdowndown drag out fight where people plant their camps and hate each other and disinvite people in the future right, but when you start talking about the the best way forward to lead a people like what are the best, do you do you believe, like someone asked me the other day, what’s the difference between Democrats and Republicans? I mean really tempting to say something that feeds.
Denali Tshibaka: 44:10
Twitter, but the basic answer is Democrats want more government power, republicans want less, that’s right.
Kelly Tshibaka: 44:18
Democrats believe that centralized government solutions are a better path for solving the problems of people, and conservatives slash Republicans is not all Republicans. Conservatives believe that community empowered solutions are a better path for solving most problems for people.
Denali Tshibaka: 44:37
It’s really that simple. The social issues are just such a gray area. I have a Democrat friend who is does not tow the party line when it comes to the Second Amendment, like he believes that a lot of Democrats.
Kelly Tshibaka: 44:47
You have the right to carry.
Denali Tshibaka: 44:48
And I have Republican friends who are pro-choice Right.
Kelly Tshibaka: 44:52
And there’s a lot of blurring there. But the basic difference is government empowered solutions or community empowered solutions. What I don’t understand is why we declare war over it right and like so, so why can’t? Why can’t we just have honest conversations and kind of challenge each other or question or learn or debate? Because if we talk about food, we’re fine, if we talk about movies, we’re fine, like like so, for example, star wars or star trek, it’s not a knockdown drag out fight. I mean, we do have very strong opinions in our family. It can get kind of heated, but we don’t have both in our family, but we it’s.
Kelly Tshibaka: 45:26
I just don’t understand why this particular issue becomes something that people like. It’s so swampy. I’m not going to engage Right. Okay, why, why, I don’t.
Denali Tshibaka: 45:37
Why are you disengaged? Why, why?
Kelly Tshibaka: 45:41
I think it’s a really important question, so like in your class, why aren’t people? Why do you just assume that the vote is already done? I don’t understand when you assume that it is done.
Denali Tshibaka: 45:50
It is done. Congratulations on fulfilling your self-fulfilled prophecy.
Kelly Tshibaka: 45:53
Well, and I’m going to be asking this same question. In our faith community, it’s only about 20% of regular church-going Christians who engage in the political process and vote regularly. Why, why do you abdicate that role at the ballot box? And a lot of people will say, well, I don’t like politics. Ok. And a lot of people will say, well, I don’t like politics. Ok. I don’t know a lot of people who do like the actual involvement, or I would say, like the chess game that is politics?
Denali Tshibaka: 46:22
That’s just our ADHD fixation.
Kelly Tshibaka: 46:25
Yeah, that just happens to be our sport team of choice, right? So a lot of people like to watch football or basketball or whatever. That’s cool. We watch the debates like that. We watch politics. That’s. I get that, and that might not be for everybody, just like I don’t sit and geek out on the nfl and eat a bunch of popcorn and nachos. I’m just not that into it. That’s cool, I understand that. But you still have a civic role. Like ultimately, you’re one of the players on the team, right, and you, you get a really important and critical role to do something about policy. And to me it’s not about pick a team and get grungy and get swampy. To me it’s like do you believe in helping immigrants, orphans and widows, right? Do you believe in stopping human trafficking? Do you want to have a role in stopping the opioid and fentanyl crisis? Do you believe in protecting people and helping people? The opioid and fentanyl crisis Do you believe in protecting people?
Kelly Tshibaka: 47:15
and helping people. Do you have a thought on what the best way is to do that, regardless of whether that’s more government-empowered solutions or more community-empowered solutions, if you have any thought on that at all, if you think that you should be engaged in helping anybody ever, then do something about it.
Denali Tshibaka: 47:29
I’m just waiting for the left to start pushing narratives about how voting is racist or sexist or ableist. Do something about it. You know, I’m just waiting for the left to start pushing narratives about how voting is racist or sexist or ableist. Like you know, yes, there’s history of only white land owning men being able to vote, but I don’t understand why women, my age blacks, my age, people who were immigrants that came legally and got their green card.
Kelly Tshibaka: 47:51
You qualify on all three of those Right. Still, that’s your whole family.
Denali Tshibaka: 47:54
They still don’t vote. Why, well? Why would I Like? Well, I don’t know. Maybe because you just got this right, like less than 100 years ago and should probably, you know, use it before the government loses it.
Kelly Tshibaka: 48:06
So yeah, most places in the world, you don’t actually have the ability to have a say in this. And some people say to me you know, I don’t know that it would make a difference, or you know, like you said, it doesn’t. Well, if we imagine a world when none of us like, if in America, none of us voted, what would happen? Isn’t that intriguing? Would we like?
Denali Tshibaka: 48:23
to let the elites run that rampant.
Kelly Tshibaka: 48:25
Or do?
Denali Tshibaka: 48:26
we want to still have some control over it. If your answer is I want to rein in my leaders. Please go and vote.
Kelly Tshibaka: 48:33
I’m begging you. Okay. So, Denali, wrapping it up. Top reasons why you would give for voting. Why would I?
Denali Tshibaka: 48:38
give for voting Okay one. I want to make sure that the government stays in their freaking lane. I want to make sure that my voice is heard, not just the elitist.
Kelly Tshibaka: 48:45
Okay, thomas Jefferson go on.
Denali Tshibaka: 48:47
And I want to make sure that the policies and the people that I think are going to best represent me actually have a shot, because I know what it’s like to have you and your family on the line running for what you believe in campaigning all day, every day, to make sure that the voters have a fair shot at electing someone to office who represents them, and when you don’t go out and vote for that, it is kind of like crapping on that sacrifice, not gonna lie. It makes it really difficult to find other people in the future who are willing to do the same thing and stand up for what’s right. And then where does that leave you in the next four to eight years?
Kelly Tshibaka: 49:19
And then I would add, for sacrifice. I want to honor what our veterans have done to give us this country and to protect and lay down their lives for our rights, and how important it is to honor that by just doing our simple part. If they can go into a theater of war to protect and defend our rights, then we can go into a ballot box to honor what they’ve done for us.
Denali Tshibaka: 49:40
Thank all of you for your service.
Kelly Tshibaka: 49:41
With that, this has been another episode of Stand. We appreciate you being with us. Kelly and Denali Tshibaka. You catch all of our episodes at standshoworg and we will see you next time.